[Fmpro] From the Job Poser We've been Discussing

Fri Dec 1 17:45:45 GMT 2006

How do we know Zimmer broke the rules?  He could very well operate this way:

Charge a huge fee to the client.  Hire a composer.  Pay composer a part of
huge fee.  Composer lists his own name on cue sheet for his own music.  So
he could be doing this in a perfectly acceptable way.

It requires charging an upfront fee to hire another composer and profit from
his work.  If you want to work for free, you'll have to do it by yourself.

CM

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-----Original Message-----
From: fmpro-bounces+chris=merrittmusic.com at nxport.com
[mailto:fmpro-bounces+chris=merrittmusic.com at nxport.com] On Behalf Of Les
Hurdle
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:40 AM
To: fmpro at nxport.com
Subject: Re: [Fmpro] From the Job Poser We've been Discussing

Just read DW's POST.............. why then did Mr Lofrumento poach  
Zimmer while obviously knowing Zimmer broke ASCAP's rules?

Is this another 'don't ask don't tell' deal?

Les

On Dec 1, 2006, at 7:10 AM, James Ryan wrote:

> Pete,
> I know you know all this, but I'll post it for the benefit of those on  
> the
> list who don't.  What do you think is going on with Hans Zimmer at  
> Media
> Ventures?  Do you think he has a writing staff to clean the bathrooms?  
>  Do
> you think that the film companies that hire him don't know there is  
> ghosting
> going on?  Do you honestly think that Mike Post or Snuffy Walden write  
> every
> cue for every one of their fifteen shows each that are on the air at  
> the
> moment?  Do you think ABC, CBS, NBC, etc. aren't aware that when they  
> call
> Snuffy or Mike, that they're hiring a music production company with a
> quality track record, not a composer?  As such, these companies are a
> training grounds for composers and an opportunity to get incredible
> experience under the tutelage and supervision of world class  
> composers.  The
> industry standard in my experience with both TV and Jingle writing is  
> that
> the price for this opportunity is 50% of the writer's share, love it  
> or hate
> it.
>
> Composers do not have to take this.  They can rebel.  They can refuse  
> to
> take these jobs.  The power is in their hands, but regardless of the  
> "moral"
> slant that is being put on this, the business practice has been  
> established
> long ago, and I think that in the practical sense, the train has left  
> the
> station.
>
> If you don't like the food, don't patronize the restaurant.  Go out on  
> your
> own (which I know you have done) and solicit your own clients.......  
> but
> many composers might want to think about what they might gain by  
> logging a
> year or so or even one gig with an A-Lister; kind of a paid  
> apprenticeship
> and a possible portal into the big league.  For these things, there is
> always a price.
>
> Best,
> James
>
>
> On 12/1/06 12:47 AM, "Pete" <musical411 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> So you build the client's confidence with your
>> previous work and face-to-face lunches. Then when you
>> land the gig, it isn't you doing the composing. You
>> just put your name on someone else's hard work. Hmmm,
>> sounds pretty shady to me on a whole new level.
>>
>> We all know how hard it is to get work. And when
>> someone gets the gig, they deserve to be compensated.
>> But, hands off on the Writer's share! Make it work
>> some other way, or write the music yourself.
>>
>> P e t e
>> S u r d o v a l
>>
>> --- James Ryan <jeryan at optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I think a point that might be missed here is the
>>> humongous job of landing a
>>> client to write for in the first place.  How many
>>> people on this list have
>>> no trouble landing network TV clients?  Having been
>>> on both the writers side
>>> and the prod company side in my career, there is an
>>> argument to be made for
>>> the 50/50 split, when you consider the man hours on
>>> the phone day after day
>>> to land this client, the lunches, the previous gigs
>>> done for them to build
>>> confidence (fill in your laundry list here).  The
>>> new composer is walking
>>> into a sweet and very difficult to come by situation
>>> that they did nothing
>>> whatsoever to create.  That situation has tremendous
>>> real value and could
>>> very well justify a split of this kind.  Perhaps
>>> over time, if the
>>> relationship continues and prospers, you might argue
>>> adjusting the split,
>>> but I personally have no problem with it as an
>>> initial offering.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, I wouldn't write a five second ID
>>> for $100, leave alone
>>> an orchestral score.   For those who want to break
>>> in to the business at a
>>> very high level though, this might not be a bad way
>>> to start.
>>>
>>> Just my $.02.
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/30/06 11:18 PM, "Pete" <musical411 at yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sorry, that IS taking advantage. If you didn't
>>>> co-write it, you aren't entitled to 50% of the
>>> writers
>>>> share! I'm surprised Mark allowed this Job Posting
>>> to
>>>> go out.
>>>>
>>>> You can try to defend it all you want by pointing
>>>> blame at the Producers, ASCAP, BMI, Other
>>> Composers,
>>>> Garageband etc... At some point each individual
>>> has to
>>>> take responsibility to do what's right for their
>>>> Brother/Sister Composers!
>>>>
>>>> P e t e
>>>> S u r d o v a l
>>>>
>>>>> We are not trying to take advantage of anyone in
>>>>> this listing. Although we
>>>>> generally do 50/50 splits on jobs we contract to
>>>>> other composers...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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