[Fmpro] Pump and $MTV$

Tue Oct 16 16:35:32 GMT 2007

Thanks for the information.  I too have been holding off with Pump.   
But they seem to be so ubiquitous that it's hard to ignore them.

Tracey Larvenz
www.melodiousthunk.net

On Oct 3, 2007, at 1:37 PM, Pete wrote:

> Thanks for sharing your knowledge Kerry!
>
> I've been holding off going with pump. One of their
> main customers is MTV. MTV doesn't pay any license
> fees (unless pump is the only one with a better deal).
>
> So, I figure I could just give it away myself to MTV
> and keep all the publishing royalties. What do I need
> pump for? I'm curious what percentage of your pump
> placements end up on MTV/VH1 etc?
>
> Also, for the same matter if they are going to license
> a cue for just $10, is that worth giving up your
> publishing royalty? What's the usual pump payment on a
> cue? High, low, average? I heard $8 is average. True?
>
> Thanks Again!
> P e t e
> S u r d o v a l
>
>
>
> --- kirbyko3 at aol.com wrote:
>
>> I did ask a PA?artist relations person about a
>> History Channel doc that used a couple of my cues,
>> about two years ago.? I was curious why I only made
>> $10 per drop, and she told me what THC paid for a
>> 1-hour program & explained that they used so many
>> cues that?each composer involved didn't get much
>> upfront.? She didn't have any qualms about telling
>> me what that show paid for its rights.? I'm sure if
>> a composer had a question, they would answer it. I
>> don't have any special standing or status with them.
>>
>> Yes, Pump does do the retitling thing where your cue
>> becomes something like PA12345689 on a cuesheet.?
>> I'll take a look at the contract and report back
>> about notification periods & whether or not they
>> continue to collect publishing income after that
>> piece has been taken from the catalog.? In all
>> honesty, I wouldn't care if they did continue to
>> collect that money: they placed the cue originally.
>>
>> I think a healthy skepticism of all things
>> music-business-related is good, and certainly
>> warranted in the case of the PRO's and music
>> publishers. But as a frequent reader of all the
>> posts on this list, I sometimes feel like people get
>> very conspiracy-theory about everything, and I think
>> that when conversations reach that point, it may
>> tend to invalidate the legitimacy of other arguments
>> that people on this list make.? It's sort of like
>> Ahmedinijad's speech at Columbia last week: a lot of
>> people found themselves saying, "You know, he's
>> saying some things that are true... he kinda makes
>> sense" until he said "There are no gays in Iran" and
>> then you would've been hard-pressed to take ANY of
>> his statements seriously.
>>
>> - Kerry?
>>
>>
>> Yes, but it's the classic "trust me with no way to
>> verify the numbers" music
>> library problem. You get a number on your statement
>> with no way to
>> independently verify it back to the payor, the music
>> user.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mark Northam <mnortham at gmdgroup.com>
>> To: fmpro at nxport.com
>> Sent: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 3:51 pm
>> Subject: Re: [Fmpro] Getty Images Launches Music
>> Licensing Service
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/3/07 12:34 PM, "kirbyko3 at aol.com"
>> <kirbyko3 at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Excellent questions!? I'll tell you what I know
>> based on my agreement with
>>> them, which is just the standard Pump artist
>> agreement.
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. What does (did) Pump Audio "own"? Do they own
>> copyright to the music in
>>> their library? If so, is it a derivative
>> copyright?
>>> *** No, their agreement is a non-exclusive
>> licensing arrangement with the
>>> writers and master owners. They act as
>>> agent for your work that's in their catalog. They
>> keep 50% of the licensing
>>> fee and 50% of the publishing PRO income.
>>> You keep 50% of the PRO income and 100% of the
>> writer's share of PRO. No
>>> different from some of the other music
>>> libraries out there, and certainly a much better
>> deal than some of them, which
>>> want to make you sign a work-for-hire
>>> agreement with no upfront money, where they own
>> everything outright but will
>>> give you 50% of the licensing fee if they
>>> should get it placed. In the meantime, you're dead
>> in the water and can't
>>> exploit the work.
>>
>> Don't get me wrong - PA sounds like a good deal, but
>> one work looking
>> closely at like any deal.
>>
>> This sounds like the "derivative copyright model"
>> where they rename the cue
>> and get 50% of the publisher's performance royalties
>> from any placements
>> they make - they would probably have to rename the
>> cue in order to avoid
>> confusion at the PROs among different cue sheets.
>> But the question still
>> stands: what does PA exactly own?
>>
>> * Only a license?
>>
>> * Any copyright interest in the newly titled
>> derivative work? If so, how
>> long does that copyright interest last, especially
>> if the work is pulled
>> from the PA library?
>>
>> * If the placement keeps on earning publishing
>> royalties for years, does PA
>> keep 50% of those even if the work has been
>> subsequently pulled from the PA
>> library? That's a lifetime of annuities from a
>> single placement
>> potentially...
>>
>>
>>> 4. Do PA composers with catalog get to see all
>> actual amounts paid by
>>> customers who license musical works?  *** I
>> suppose you could ask, but most
>>> broadcasters who use them have a per-show
>>> blanket agreement. Let's say they get $2000 for a
>> 1-hour documentary. They
>>> keep 10% off the top as a music supervision fee
>>> (I know, I know) and the remaining amount is split
>> in half. They take half,
>>> and the remaining half is split up among all the
>> cues
>>> in that show.  A lot of cues used = you don't make
>> much at all. A handful of
>>> cues used = you get more $$.
>>>
>>> Compared to other production music libraries, it's
>> a great deal for an artist
>>> or composer.
>>
>> Yes, but it's the classic "trust me with no way to
>> verify the numbers" music
>> library problem. You get a number on your statement
>> with no way to
>> independently verify it back to the payor, the music
>> user.  Imagine if your
>> agent called you up one day and said, "Hey - you got
>> a gig! I won't show you
>> the contract I have with the production company, and
>> I'm having them pay me
>> and I'll pay you,  but I can tell you, and you'll
>> have to trust me with no
>> way to verify it, that the gig pays ]fill in the
>> blank] dollars"
>>
>> I don't know any composer who would react positively
>> to their agent not
>> disclosing the actual amount of the sale, especially
>> if the agent is paid
>> and the agent then pays the composer directly. Yet
>> with almost every music
>> library, this is the scenario composers are faced
>> with on a "take it or
>> leave it" basis.
>>
>> PA sounds like a relatively good deal, but even with
>> PA, composers are
>> utterly in the dark about the financial side of the
>> deals PA is making with
>> music users, it would seem. Any other PA users have
>> more info on this?
>>
>> I'm reminded of the slogan, "Trust, but verify." Of
>> course, impossible with
>> the PROs by design. But with people we appoint to be
>> sales agents for our
>> music, I think we can expect more.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Mark Northam
>>
>>
>>
>>
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