[Fmpro] One step further.......scab? OT

[James Ryan]

Guys, please take this off list.

James


On 9/11/07 7:46 PM, "Chris Alpiar" <chris at alpiar.com> wrote:

> Boy you are hostile! I said nothing against you, only used your impertinent
> shots at me as a platform to discuss real issues. 1- If the guy had said
> anything of substance at all to me other then "Watch your wards" I might
> have said something nicer then "Watch your English". 2- I never said any
> European orchestra was 2nd rate, and 3- corruption IS a part of every
> organization there is. You name any organization and I will bet you Les
> Hurdle's knickers that with some time and money one could find corrupt
> elements. Its completely unnecessary to aim your personal anger at me or
> attempt to belittle or demoralize me publicly. We are on the same side
> Tracey (I think), take it easy. Buy a punching bag before you assume things
> and take it out on me
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmpro-bounces+chris=alpiar.com at nxport.com
> [mailto:fmpro-bounces+chris=alpiar.com at nxport.com] On Behalf Of Tracey
> Larvenz
> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 7:27 PM
> To: fmpro at nxport.com
> Subject: Re: [Fmpro] One step further.......scab? OT
> 
> Boy are you thick!  I'll keep things simple and use smaller words so
> you can follow.
> 
> Broken down by paragraph, my points are:
> 
> (a)  Don't take shots at people because they don't have the command
> of English that you think you do.
> (b)  There are many first rate European orchestras.
> (c)  Corruption isn't an intrinsic (look it up if you don't know what
> it means) part of anything.
> 
> That's it.
> 
> Somehow in this, you read that I:
> (a) believe that work should be farmed out to the lowest bidder
> (b) cannot see the difficulties faced by composers and orchestral
> musicians in the long run
> (c) don't agree that there are difficulties and I am just out to make
> a quick buck at the expense of everyone else
> (d) nod head yes to unreasonable requests.
> 
> For this, I believe that Karl Rove has nothing on you.
> Up to now, you didn't address a single point on what I wrote.
> Can you see the difference between my points and what you took away?
> Know that I am a strong believer in the art of what we do.
> 
> Yes, I believe firmly that there is a problem with the way business
> is done.
> Only by acting as a group can we change it.
> Until we do, the art of composing will suffer.
> 
> When you start to look beyond the first letter of a sentence, you
> begin to understand it better.  Otherwise you might take away the
> wrong message.  The problem is not European orchestras.  The problem
> is not producers and directors shopping around to get the most value
> for their budgets.  The problem is really with composers.  We won't
> band together to form a strong composers union.  We let ASCAP
> negotiate away our services to cater to the songwriters.  We let
> producers or directors talk us into doing something for back end
> because there's always someone who WILL do that if we don't.  We let
> them talk us into flying to Europe to record our orchestral scores
> rather than pay what is a fair wage to U.S. musicians.  When we
> become A-List, we take the back room royalty deal rather than
> standing amongst the ranks to further the cause.   We don't fight for
> legislation to protect our rights.  We are the problem.
> 
> We need to form a union.  There is a united front for most skills in
> film and tv, with the notable exception of composers.  We need to
> bring composers' issues to the national stage, as SAG or the WGA do.
> We need to treat each other with respect and respect our art.  We
> need to make directors and producers understand why it is important
> to support our art form through supporting local talent.  We need to
> be team players.  We need to support each other when someone says no
> to a job that pays beneath what we deserve.  We need to stick
> together to make sure that no professional composer will take that
> job.  We need to agree amongst ourselves what the course should be,
> stop fighting each other, form a REAL UNION and ensure the survival
> of our craft.  Most of all, we need to understand that we are all in
> this together and that the "every man for himself" attitude must go
> away.
> 
> This is what I think.  Don't make me out to be something that I am
> not.  You can take your supposition and stick it in that dark place
> next to your head.
> 
> Tracey Larvenz
> www.melodiousthunk.net
> 
> 
> 
> On Sep 11, 2007, at 3:13 PM, Chris Alpiar wrote:
> 
>> Besides saying that you are offeneded I referred to the eastern
>> european
>> orchestras as "scab" and you don't like my spelling errors, what
>> exactly is
>> your point? I suppose you would rather see all the jobs go out of the
>> country to the lowest bidder, allowing the corporate heads to keep
>> their
>> bottom line and next quarter's earnings in the black and continue
>> on this
>> spiral until there is nothing left but a whisper of what was an
>> artistic
>> form? This trend is the devaluation of our art, business and
>> livelihood. It
>> is in literal free-fall at the moment and if we don't interject on
>> every
>> level then we are the ones to blame for its demise and doomed to
>> live in
>> poverty and all our lifetimes of training and experience be valued
>> equal to
>> a burger flipper at McDonald's
>> 
>> That is where we are headed, whether you choose to see it or not. The
>> concept of short term gains without recognition of the long-term
>> consequences is something that is abundant in our society. It is
>> extremely
>> prevalent at the moment in the music and entertainment industries
>> which are
>> in free-fall still from the sudden shift into the download era. And
>> in a
>> larger picture unfortunately artistic endeavors will never be
>> considered a
>> commodity or anything more then frivolity to the powers that be. So
>> we must
>> find a way to unify and decide where we want to collectively be in
>> 20 and 50
>> and 100 years and figure out what chips we have as a group to lay
>> down on
>> the table. And as a group make our goals clear and put in place
>> mechanisms
>> to enforce them. If you don't agree with that then I am afraid you
>> care
>> nothing for the art of our business and are just another bean
>> counter trying
>> to make a quick buck with no regard for the consequences of your
>> actions.
>> 
>> If we don't do something soon... In 20 years, maybe less, there
>> will be 1%
>> of the film score jobs there are today. The value of a composer who
>> spent
>> 10-20 years preparing his/her craft will be equal to that of a
>> minimum scale
>> computer operator that drags and drops loops onto a timeline. There
>> will be
>> no more orchestras that have career master musicians, only students
>> that toy
>> with a dead art like scholars that play with Latin text. Personally
>> I would
>> rather see the opposite of that! I don't have a complete plan of
>> how to get
>> there and I don't even know all of the issues involved, but I know
>> that this
>> path we are on now is one of self destruction. And because everyone
>> is so
>> scared to lose that next job, and prefer a life of obsequious hob-
>> nobbing,
>> it needs us now to create a new wave. A wave filled with vitality
>> and energy
>> and one that wont accept 100k films with oh sorry no budget for the
>> score
>> can you do it on the back end only? :p Or 400k films that oh sorry we
>> require a full orchestra recording but we can only pay 5k and force
>> us in
>> bad positions.
>> 
>> And lastly it has nothing at all to do with where the orchestras
>> are at or
>> who sits in the room and plays. It has everything to do with the
>> willingness
>> of our group of composers to *nod head yes* to unreasonable
>> requests out of
>> fear. With unity those issues can be washed away.
>> 
>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: fmpro-bounces+chris=alpiar.com at nxport.com
>>> [mailto:fmpro-bounces+chris=alpiar.com at nxport.com] On Behalf
>>> Of Tracey Larvenz
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 3:03 PM
>>> To: fmpro at nxport.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Fmpro] One step further.......scab? OT
>>> 
>>> BTW Chris,
>>> 
>>> If you're going to take someone to task for their English,
>>> I'd take a hard look at your own first.  "Then" should be
>>> "than" in most places where you use it.  And I'd be willing
>>> to bet you don't have the mother tongue excuse... Inherent is
>>> misspelled.  It was fairly pathetic to take shots at someone
>>> who speaks English as a second or third language,
>>> particularly when your command of grammar and
>>> spelling is less than perfect.  How many languages do you speak?
>>> When I've travelled and attempted to speak languages other
>>> than English, the native speakers were always gracious,
>>> accommodating and thankful that I was trying.
>>> 
>>> I thought that your reference to European orchestral
>>> musicians as scabs was in poor taste.  While it is true that
>>> "scab" can refer to non-union players, the common usage of
>>> the term is generally derogatory with regards to quality, no
>>> matter how you choose to frame it.
>>> 
>>> I don't believe that corruption is inherent in anything,
>>> politics aside.  It's thinking like that which brings
>>> acceptance of corruption and disempowers people to take
>>> action against it.  There's a difference between "inherent"
>>> and "accepted."
>>> 
>>> Tracey Larvenz
>>> www.melodiousthunk.net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sep 8, 2007, at 3:50 PM, Chris Alpiar wrote:
>>> 
>>>> How specifically were you lied to by the UK Musicians Union?
>>>> 
>>>> I am not saying that the current unions work for everyone, anymore
>>>> then Mark's ideals worked in the Soviet Union, but it's the
>>> IDEALS we
>>>> must stand by and demand or else we just contribute to the
>>> continued
>>>> spiral down. In every EVERY organization corruption is an inherant
>>>> aspect. I don't like to hear you were ripped off, but
>>> saying FU to the
>>>> whole thing and supporting anarchy will not get you anything either
>>>> 
>>>>> Dozens of jobs these days for a rock production......  the
>>> band, the
>>>>> sidemen, the video folk, the sound crew, the catering
>>> crew, makeup,
>>>>> the guys who travel . riggers/drivers etc...... the folks who sell
>>>>> concessions, the folks who sell the tickets, the folks who
>>> print the
>>>>> tickets, the folks who clean the auditorium etc etc.....
>>> I'm sure you
>>>>> get my point.
>>>> 
>>>> Umm if you ever EVER find a rock concert that hires anyone
>>> from out of
>>>> town much less out of country for anything other then the
>>> band and its
>>>> entourage please tell me I will come take pictures lol
>>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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> 
> _______________________________________________
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