[Fmpro] CPA (was Did you???????)
James Ryan
jeryan at optonline.net
Thu Apr 3 14:54:32 GMT 2008
Hi Chris,
OK, in a nutshell. Most major ad agencies are now registered with
ASCAP. That is because ASCAP does track commercials if you file your
paperwork the way they like it. I can't speak for BMI as I'm not a
member, but in the past they did not pay on commercials. SESAC may be
doing it now, you'll have to check.
For national advertising, you must obtain the "media buy" invoices
from the agency and file them with ASCAP. Some agencies like Grey
Advertising in NYC will do that for you (and themselves since they
take the publishing). ASCAP will then pay you for every single play of
the commercial that is logged on these invoices. It is certainly not
the rate you'd get if it was a song, but it can add up on a big
commercial. For Cable you must also file the media buy sheets, but
the the plays are tallied by the sample survey and you likely won't
get paid on every single play - there is a chance that your commercial
could be completely missed in the survey. For local ads, you simply
have to register the music including the first line of ad copy and a
CD or video of the spot, and they will look for it in their regular
survey of the various local stations that it will be playing on. You
can obtain all the registration materials and detailed instructions by
calling ASCAP's members' services dept.
For musicians, if you file your commercial with your local AFM, you
will be entitled to a residual for each musician, contractor,
orchestrator, copyist, etc. on the contract (all of which could be
you) paid every thirteen weeks that the commercial runs. For singers,
if it's radio, you file with AFTRA, TV you file with SAG. Their rates
are all over the place depending on where the commercial runs, local,
national, major city, etc.
That is what I remember from having done it for many years. I rarely
do commercials these days, so some of this may be out of date, but it
at least gives you a picture. What I'm finding these days, much to my
dismay, is I'm getting calls for music I may already have in my
library (unused demos, etc.), being offered library fees, and then
being asked to customize the music to the commercial, as in rearrange
it to fit while still only being paid the initial $500 or so. I have
uniformly refused as the typical budget for a commercial from a major
ad agency ten years ago was in the $10k range. More if it's a
jingle. I strongly recommend that nobody on this list or any other
list bend to this kind of BS.
Key point: When you are told "we don't have the budget," remember, a
budget is what they decide to allocate. It is as much as they want to
spend. It is never how much money they have. I did a spot a while
back where I had to simply play a blues riff on guitar, and an actor
would mime it on camera. They only had a small "budget" for it. I
really didn't have to write anything, just play a riff for ten
seconds, and the money was about triple AFM scale so I said fine.
That's all they had in the "budget." They did a second version of the
spot, where they had an actor mimicking an old song. I demoed a
couple of jazz standards as requested, and one of my competitors
submitted some song demos that her writers had done in their spare
time in the past. The budget, I believe was around $5K for an
arrangement of the PD standard or the song demo. They fell in love
with a horrible song demo, and the writer demanded $30k. They
magically found $30k in spite of the original budget. Moral of the
story - Budgets are BS. They will spend what they need to spend to
get what they want. The above situation is admittedly rare, and with
the amount of competition out there, it will not be often that you
will be able to pull off something like it, but it is there to
illustrate a point witnessed first hand.
Hope this helps. If anyone else wants to add or correct, jump right
in. This is what I remember with my rapidly aging brain!
Best,
James
On Apr 3, 2008, at 12:57 AM, chris at alpiar.com wrote:
> OK thanks Ryan. I have been on the list pretty much since 2004 but I
> dont remember seeing talks about ad music per se. Not since Pete
> Surdoval was talking about CRM ad music but I dont remember a
> definitive answer to this question in that period. Tho there
> certainly are times when I am busy and I miss stuff ;) I will go
> check out the archives sometime soon!
>
> Chris
>
> Christopher Kennedy Alpiar
> Cinematic Composer
> http://www.alpiar.com/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Ryan [mailto:jeryan at optonline.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 2, 2008 09:59 PM
> To: fmpro at nxport.com
> Subject: Re: [Fmpro] Did you???????
>
> Hi Chris, Ad music does get paid PRO royalties, but not easily. We
> have gone over it a fair bit on this forum so if you check the
> archives, you'll find a great deal about it. To sum it up, sometimes
> if you're not careful, you can get backed into a buyout deal. Not
> the best way to go. Best way is full union for singers and players
> and register the spot with ASCAP (BMI is not so good about
> commercials). Then you have multiple sources of revenue. I did it
> for about fifteen years and made a very decent living. Best, James
> On Apr 2, 2008, at 9:53 PM, chris at alpiar.com wrote: > I have music
> that has had air play in US only that I have never been > paid a
> dime on > > On a similar note, what happens with advertising music?
> I assume > there are no royalties collected for them because they
> are paid ads > and it is assumed that the ad agency (or whoever) has
> paid the > artist(s) as a work for hire? > > Christopher Kennedy
> Alpiar > Cinematic Composer > http://www.alpiar.com/ > > -----Ori!
> ginal Message----- > From: LesHurdle
> [mailto:leshurdle at avradionet.com] > Sent: Wednesday, April 2, 2008
> 08:52 PM > To: fmpro at nxport.com > Subject: Re: [Fmpro] Did
> you??????? > > Sorry........... old age BF......... yes knew. Wow,
> you're the only > one ;-) L On Apr 2, 2008, at 8:17 AM, James Ryan
> wrote: > Hi Les, > > Knew or new? Seriously, of course virtually all
> of us can answer 1.) > > yes, 2.) no, 3.) no, 4.) Local & Global > >
> Why do you ask? > > J > > > > On Apr 2, 2008, at 11:05 AM, LesHurdle
> wrote: > >> Would any > of you brave folk out there care to note if
> you have had >> music on > air and were; >> >> Never paid >> >> New
> you were being paid the > correct amount >> >> New you were NOT
> being aid the correct amount > >> >> This can be local to the USA or
> global >> >> Les >> >> >
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