[Fmpro] SOCAN..... and a breath of fresh air

[LesHurdle]

Hi Sean,

I'd like to go through your email if I may and make some pointers,  
while asking 'a couple' of questions ;-)

On Jul 3, 2008, at 5:59 AM, Sean Goble wrote:

> Hi Les,
>  apply to SOCAN.  While most PROs do
> "double dip" your foreign earnings (ie. PRS collects, charges a  
> fee, ASCAP
> distributes, charges a fee) SOCAN is one of a few, if not the only PRO
> that DOES NOT charge for foreign distribution.

IMRO  !

> Our operating fees are
> strictly from radio earnings.  So you are only getting hit with  
> fees from
> the foreign society, not domestic if you are a SOCAN member.

Are you stating, it is RADIO in Canada which pays for all of SOCAN's  
operating costs?
>
> As far as accuracy goes, there may be some confusion as to how the  
> systems
> work.  We submit our cuesheets into a database that is accessed by all
> other PROs to create foreign payments.  Unfortunately, at this  
> point, some
> of the PROs may stumble in matching cuesheet to performance.  However,
> there is a back-up in that every quarter we receive unidentified
> performance lists from foreign PROs that we actually go through and  
> spot
> check for shows that cue sheets have been submitted to us and we match
> them up, sending the reports back to the PRO and claiming the lost  
> income
> on behalf of our member.

What was the real reason watermarking was not implemented in Canada?
>
> There are a couple pitfalls of many PROs that prevent you from getting
> earnings from your performances.  One is simply staffing.  Many  
> smaller
> PROs just don't have the staff to process and record every  
> performance in
> their country.  I know of at least one PROs that is three people and a
> computer, pretty much there simply as a symbolic gesture towards
> copyright.  Another is the reporting. While in the larger PROs we  
> receive
> 24/7 programming information for TV and use computer fingerprinting  
> for
> radio performances,

Would you be kind enough to point out what is contained within the  
SOCAN contract with broadcasters which entitles SOCAN to 24/7 data?
How often is the data sent to SOCAN, by what method, what does it cost?

>  This is really good news if you land in the
> sample, not so good if you hit the week after the sample.

Errrr.. never ;-)
>
> It should also be mentioned that legally you can't belong to more  
> than one
> PRO at a time, only publishers can have multiple accounts, and more  
> often
> than not having a PRO based in your home country (or within a  
> reasonable
> distance) gives you a base that you can visit if you have questions as
> well as various perks that are provided by PROs such as mixers,  
> magazines,
> contacts etc.

Sean, you are incorrect on this matter..... maybe not SOCAN, but any  
PRO writer member around the globe [poss with the other exception  
Australia] can join any PRO they want, in any manner of  
multiples......... if SOCAN does not allow this, is it not  
discrimination to the writer given the publisher has global choices?
>
>
> I hope this helps.  If you have any questions, go ahead and post  
> them and
> I'll try to answer as much as I can.

Oh my Sean.......... what a welcome relief you are..............   
given the commercial slot is the very lifeblood of broadcasting, why  
does SOCAN refuse to pay for the music on commercials?
Surely Canadian broadcasters pay SOCAN for all music 24/7, do they not?

Have a great day

Les

>
> Cheers,
> -Sean Goble
> Membership, SOCAN
>
>
> To: fmpro at nxport.com
> Message-ID: <22E31861-1496-4091-BD8A-14D0F2AC803B at avradionet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> Hi Josh,
>
> Please excuse the cut n paste [c n p] below].......
>
> Where do you have product, where do you expect to have product around
> the planet?
>
> Please remember  PRO's receive, they do not collect outside their own
> domestic patch.
>
>
> On Jul 2, 2008, at 8:50 AM, Josh Silver wrote:
>
>> This is a pretty interesting conversation and has raised some
>> curiosity on my part about using foreign PRO's to collect foreign
>> royalties for me.
>>
>> I was until recently under the impression that the main reason to use
>> a foreign PRO for foreign collections was to receive foreign  
>> royalties
>> much faster than if I went through my domestic PRO (SOCAN) to collect
>> my foreign royalties.  Now after reading the recent fmpro emails on
>> this topic I am a little confused because I have been reading that
>> using SACEM or GEMA for example to represent a composer for the
>> territory of Europe would not only collect royalties faster, but also
>> more accurately than my domestic PRO???  Am I understanding this
>> correctly?
>
> Yes you are !!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>> Previously I have decided against using a foreign PRO for this  
>> purpose
>> because I was under the impression that the only real benefit was
>> quicker royalty payments for international broadcasts.  So since the
>> foreign PRO would end up getting a percentage of my royalties in
>> exchange for the collections I decided not to do it since I don't  
>> mind
>> waiting longer for the royalty payments.
>
> They get the % at this time anyway, then you pay extra for SOCAN to
> admin the income.......... go direct !
>>
>> Now this topic has been opened up again for me as I did not know that
>> using SACEM or GEMA would actually increase the accuracy of the
>> European collections, I am considering going with SACEM or GEMA as my
>> European reps.
>
> You may be entitled to a pension if you sign up with GEMA and/or
> SACEM............ seriously........... join them all, get the
> benefits for all.
>
> e.g.  Join SACEM for all French speaking markets,  SGAE for Spanish
> speaking markets,   PRS for the UK etc etc
>
> I wish I had done so decades ago, but in those days PRS frowned on
> any 'move'.......... ok for publishers though ;-)
>
> I joined ASCAP for the USA and it caused immense concern at
> PRS.............. equally my ASCAP publishing company had my
> 'writers' product on air in the UK......... this was interesting, I
> was paid my writers share by PRS but not the publishing by
> ASCAP...............  until one compared statements [for and to
> them]......... then my publishing co and the money was 'found' ...
> clerical error !
>
> Always have the means to cross check, it pays dividends, but really
> upsets staff.
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