[Fmpro] SOCAN, Sean Goble

[LesHurdle]

With respect.
The practice by SOCAN [and the Aussies] is restrictive,
Presume, if a publisher can 'collect' around the globe via e.g. EMI  
Canada & perchance EMI UK and all of the 150 PRO's............  why  
not the composer e.g. LH USA, LH UK etc etc.?

Re Pump Audio, isn't this akin to the derivative copyright, and once  
that cat is out of the bag, what is to stop the folks in Outer  
Mongolia from re titling everything?

L

On Jul 6, 2008, at 9:20 AM, David Tkaczuk wrote:

> Thanks for your reply Sean.
>
> Yes, some people are suggesting that you register/join as many PRO's
> as possible, which is not possible with SOCAN.
>
> On the subject of re-titling, Pump Audio is an example of a music  
> library
> that re-title's your works with their own title scheme. The person  
> I talked
> to said that they only will do this if your work is going to be  
> used, but, I
> am not sure about this. As a composer, you would like to be sure that
> everything is as is should be and that nothing is slipping through  
> the cracks.
>
> Dave
> D&D Music
>
> Sean Goble wrote:
>
>> Wow.  Okay, so here's answers where I have answers.  Please keep  
>> in mind
>> this is strictly from a Canadian/SOCAN perspective.
>>
>> Dave:
>> The reason you've had so many differing responses is because there  
>> is no
>> complete answer to protecting your copyright.  Since you have to  
>> protect
>> your copyright in civil court, you should cover as many bases as  
>> possible.
>>  The way to look at it is you are creating a paper trail so that  
>> should
>> your copyright ever come into question, you have documents to  
>> prove your
>> claim.  The first thing I tell any of our members is if you  
>> cowrite, or
>> someone has an interest in your song, GET THE SPLITS IN WRITING AND
>> SIGNED.  Composing is an organic process, and this will quite  
>> often feel
>> awkward but anything you can get down where the splits are decided is
>> incredibly useful down the road.
>> Copyright: There is the poor man's copyright, which is admittedly  
>> not fool
>> proof, but it's a start.  This is the practice of sending a copy  
>> of your
>> work by registered mail to yourself and not opening it.  This  
>> gives you a
>> date that the work was completed but isn't strong enough to stand  
>> on its
>> own.  Register your work with your PRO.  As far as the actual act of
>> copyrighting your song, I normally recommend that people use the US
>> Copyright system instead of the Canadian as the Canadian system  
>> only uses
>> title and writers (so if I write a song called "I Love You" I get  
>> thrown
>> in with all the other songs of the same name) whereas the US  
>> system takes
>> a copy of your work.  US Copyrights can be submitted in Canadian  
>> court.
>>
>> Registering your work: Some people submit only the songs that see the
>> light of day, some people submit every note they've ever written.   
>> But I
>> strongly suggest you use our webpage to submit your works (if  
>> you're a
>> SOCAN member) as this cuts down on paper and there is no question  
>> whether
>> it has been processed or not.  You can monitor it from the page.   
>> SOCAN
>> uses a 100% model so splits are 50% writer share and 50% publisher.
>>
>> Retitling: I think I need some clarification.  Do you mean a) 
>> changing the
>> names of work b) giving/selling your work to someone else or c)  
>> within a
>> publishing context such as labelling an entire acquired library?
>>
>> Mark:
>>
>> Publishers: I should have been clearer on this in my first post.   
>> The way
>> publishers register with multiple PROs internationally is by creating
>> business entities in other countries.  For instance in N. America  
>> there
>> could be Large Publisher Conglomerate in the US collected by BMI  
>> and then
>> in Canada there would be LPC Canada that has a SOCAN account  
>> (normally
>> that would be a SOCAN "B" account but I'll explain that a little  
>> more in a
>> minute) that collects in Canada.  As we don't want to step on  
>> BMI's toes
>> in this case, SOCAN normally requires some type of office up here  
>> in order
>> for them to be a member of SOCAN.  In effect it's like having a
>> subpublisher just under the same name.  Technically, these should be
>> limited deals, but because of the nature of the beast, we accept that
>> publishers, the larger ones at least, will have subpublishers/country
>> specific versions of the company and we try to accommodate them,  
>> even if
>> it doesn't technically fall into "membership" as it should be.
>>
>> Splitting your catalogue between US PROS:  When you become a SOCAN  
>> member
>> you choose who you would like to collect on your behalf in the  
>> US.  These
>> are SOCAN A, B and S accounts.  You, as a writer, can get split  
>> accounts
>> where part of your account is an A and part is a B if necessary  
>> (say if
>> you were published by one ASCAP publisher and one BMI publisher), but
>> normally we encourage you to pick one to avoid money getting  
>> caught up as
>> one PRO collects on your behalf for another PRO's song, it gets  
>> sent to us
>> and then we have to send it back so that it can go through the right
>> society.   You can however switch who is representing you by  
>> requesting it
>> from SOCAN.
>>
>> Assignment Letter:  We have what is called an "Authorized  
>> Representative"
>> form that allows our members to give partial or complete control  
>> of their
>> account to a third party (while retaining their own control of  
>> course).
>> However, you need to be a member of SOCAN in order to do this.  We  
>> do not
>> pay out to non-members.  If you are an American writer, who is  
>> represented
>> by an American PRO, all claims, requests and questions need to be  
>> directed
>> through your PRO.  If you call SOCAN, we'll happily field your  
>> call but we
>> can't do anything about cue sheets, missed broadcasts, works or  
>> finances.
>> All directions have to come through your PRO.
>>
>> Les:
>>
>> IMRO: Good catch, I read that in a post after I had written my  
>> email and
>> to be honest, I didn't know.
>>
>> Operating Costs: Our operating costs come from the "Radio Pool".   
>> This
>> pool, while primarily containing the license fees from our customers
>> (public performance, broadcast), also contains money from various  
>> tariffs
>> that we are unable to monitor.  We call it the "radio pool"  
>> because the
>> performance data from radio is what is used to distribute the  
>> money in
>> this pool.  But no foreign money goes into this pool, it is paid  
>> directly
>> to our members.
>>
>> Watermarking: I'm really not privy to high level decisions such as  
>> reasons
>> for watermarking or not watermarking.  Some of the technologies  
>> that were
>> looked at came up a little short as they did not cross over when  
>> copied
>> etc.  No doubt that has changed and we do keep on top of this  
>> stuff so it
>> may happen yet, but right now we find fingerprinting to be a better
>> approach on radio as we don't need to rely on the file itself for  
>> ID, we
>> can do it from our end and I've heard rumoured that a similar  
>> technology
>> is being looked at for TV/Internet.  Our company line however is  
>> that we
>> are still looking at the technology and may utilize it in the future.
>>
>> Broadcaster Contract:  This isn't my end of the company, I am a  
>> member
>> account executive which means I work with membership and all  
>> concerns of
>> our members.  However, even if I were in licensing I don't think  
>> we'd be
>> allowed to give out any details on our contracts.  Sorry.  :-(
>>
>> Multiple PROs: We may be dealing with an issue of semantics here.
>> Membership, at least around here, is generally referring to  
>> worldwide and
>> I assumed (probably erroneously) that's what you meant.   Part of the
>> process of becoming a member is that we do a back check on an
>> international database (IPI) to make sure you are not a member of  
>> another
>> society.  If you are, we ask them to release you.  This is maintained
>> universally (or is supposed to be) and is not unique to SOCAN.   
>> However,
>> as I did come in part way through this conversation (I've been on the
>> board for a while but I don't always get the opportunity to read  
>> every
>> digest), it occurs to me that you may be discussing limited territory
>> deals which do happen.
>>         A limited deal is where you assign a PRO for a specific  
>> territory.
>>  I have seen this done with one or maybe at the most two  
>> territories.  So
>> if you were a SOCAN member and a Canadian citizen living in  
>> Manhattan you
>> could have SOCAN for worldwide ex. US and then have an American PRO
>> collect in the States.
>>         Here's the problems we've experienced when this starts to  
>> expand
>> beyond one (I'm playing antagonist because it looks as if it has  
>> already
>> been advocated if we're talking limited here).  Firstly, for each  
>> PRO you
>> join, you need to qualify and you need to be released by your  
>> current PRO
>> for that territory.  While some PROs have few membership  
>> qualifications
>> and will happily sign a foreign based member, most PROs, unless  
>> it's a
>> special case, restrict membership to people residing in their  
>> territory.
>> This allows the smaller guys to exist and work with, instead of  
>> against,
>> the big societies.   Second is taxes.  You're getting taxed in a  
>> multiple
>> of different territories.  If your accounting is set-up for this,  
>> then it
>> isn't a problem.  A third is you are gumming up the works a bit as  
>> limited
>> territories are rare (and normally not recommended) and I'm sure  
>> you have
>> experience with any large company trying to deal with something  
>> that it
>> doesn't handle every day.  The last real issue is your catalogue.  If
>> you're working with limited territories, you need to supply your  
>> entire
>> catalogue to the societies working in limited territory deals.  Your
>> society (whoever is representing you worldwide ex. limited  
>> territories) is
>> not going to submit your catalogue to a limited territory country  
>> because
>> it isn't claiming on your behalf in that territory.  And the limited
>> territory PRO is not going to use a foreign PRO's list even if it  
>> were
>> submitted.  So you will need to maintain your catalogue in multiple
>> databases.
>>         These issues are the biggies and if you don't see anything  
>> that's
>> a deal breaker, then limited territories may be a good option for  
>> some
>> people though we've found that the majority members who try it  
>> tend to
>> come back to a worldwide.
>>
>> Commercials: You're right, SOCAN does not pay or collect  for  
>> commercials,
>> 60 secs or less, aired in Canada. There's no real answer here.  
>> Commercials
>> are simply something we don't pay, the same way that we don't pay for
>> skating rink performances.  All PROs have different things they  
>> pay and
>> don't pay, for instance we pay for all concerts while US PROs only  
>> pay the
>> top 200.  It's a matter of policies and resources and while surely  
>> here,
>> in a board full of A/V composers, commercials are a large focus, with
>> other members it would be much preferred that we pay a different  
>> area as
>> theoretically a composer of a work in a commercial has already  
>> been paid
>> while a person having their song covered on stage has not.  It's a
>> difficult line to walk and it does get revisited from time to time  
>> but
>> that's the best I can give you at the moment.
>>
>> Geesh Les, throw me a softball or two next time would you?  :-)
>>
>> Okay, I think that's it.  Hope I didn't put everyone to sleep.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Sean
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Film Music Pro List is sponsored by Film Music Magazine -  
>> http://www.filmmusicmag.com
>>
>> Best of FMPRO: http://www.fmproquotes.com - Quotes site  by Billy  
>> Hale Music
>>
>> To edit your list options or unsubscribe, visit:
>> http://nxport.com/mailman/listinfo/fmpro
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Film Music Pro List is sponsored by Film Music Magazine -   
> http://www.filmmusicmag.com
>
> Best of FMPRO: http://www.fmproquotes.com - Quotes site  by Billy  
> Hale Music
>
> To edit your list options or unsubscribe, visit:
> http://nxport.com/mailman/listinfo/fmpro
>