[Fmpro] "Where are the Distinctive Voices In Scoring?"

[Evan Evans]

Ted,

Thanks for the skepticism on Williams, it does help keep debate alive and
his music under much needed scrutiny. However, its important to note that
it's apparent you know very little about John Williams and for instance the
scoring teams of the top 25 film composers, their processes and teammates
various responsibilities. I do respect your conjecture. From your point of
view it circumscribed many important points of suspicion about Williams. But
I can assure you, Williams writes around 95% of the notes you hear (an
accurate estimate based on example). His artistry does not change dependant
on the changing of his crew over the years, and so it's easy to hear "what
is Williams" in anything he does, if you are familiar with his
entire oeuvre. Williams also notates VERY fast, and developed an excellent
short hand for his notation, and can very easily put down nearly everything
you hear. He also does not change his music on the stand as drastically as
other film composers do, although he does tweak and produce his music "on
the stand".

Just thought you should know this so that you can make your criticisms even
more effective. Anyone criticising Williams is doing a good service to the
community, in keeping this famous man's role in this artform under scrutiny,
as well as the art itself. If you feel the instinctive need to define
Williams, I think it's very healthy that you do so. I simply recommend you
keep abreast of the details (facts, musical theory, etc), so that your
arguments are strong.

Evan Evans

Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 22:03:20 -0700
> From: Ted Peterson <ted.peterson at tcsn.net>
> Subject: Re: [Fmpro] FMPRO Latest Rant: "Where are the  Distinctive
>        Voicesinscoring?"
> To: fmpro at nxport.com
> Message-ID: <BAE41DCC-9609-48FB-AF6E-34B7A22801AA at tcsn.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=US-ASCII;       delsp=yes;
>  format=flowed
>
> Let's take Williams. If you look at the credits for Catch Me if You
> Can, you see some interesting things....
> ...But back to the credits. There are some listings here that lead me to
> place Williams and other decent composers on a lower tier ... There are no
> less than 5 people doing something with
> the score which may have been something as simple as a piano score or
> a mockup with instrumental suggestions. We don't know. Then we have a
> couple of orchestrators. I have worked with some pretty good
> orchestrators and have worked on some things myself. So I know how
> much an orchestrator can add to the overall "sound" of a piece of
> music. A simple piece that is well orchestrated sounds a lot better
> than a great piece but poorly orchestrated. The whole "Pictures at an
> Exhibition" is a good example. We have the Mussorgsky piano score,
> some of his orchestrations, the Ravel orchestrations and the Rimsky-
> Korsakov orchestrations so we have a lot of things to compare all
> based on the same music. It's a good piece for study just because of
> all of these elements around it.
>
> Now, orchestration and a composer's choice of instruments,
> instrumental color and tone can define the composer as much as the
> music in the sense of notes. I have worked on some absolutely horrid
> scores that are little more than melodic lines with some suggestions
> of basic harmonies and have watched as good orchestrators make a
> quite stunning piece of music. So do I call this the product of the
> composer or the orchestrator?
>
> I think that a composer like Stravinsky, or Beethoven or Mendelssohn
> are better composers than Williams will ever hope to be. For a
> contemporary look, take a sample of the works of Elliot Carter.
> Absolutely wonderful and incredibly inventive. Or take Hans Werner
> Henze. I can post a hundred names who are really expanding the
> musical art in a way that Williams, as good as he is, can only copy.
> Not to mention the amount of "classical" music he uses as the genesis
> of some of his music. However, I do find his music effective as
> supporting material for a primarily visual experience. Mozart also
> wrote music for visual programmes and Shikaneder was adept at staging
> wonderful fantasies of which "The Magic Flute" is the most notable.
> But the music for the play in the form of an opera is certainly on a
> level that Williams cannot approach through a system of sound cues.
>
> Don't get me wrong. The music for "Jaws" and the themes are really
> effective. They have become cultural Icons that have transcended the
> film and have become part of our culture. But as a purely musical
> expression, an effective background theme is hardly "The Queen of the
> Night."
>
> I wonder if "The Rite of Spring" would have the same impact if
> Stravinsky hired a crew of orchestrators to orchestrate his dual
> piano score.
>
>
> Here are the credits:
>
> Music Department
> Ramiro Belgardt
> ....
> assistant music editor
> Sandy DeCrescent
> ....
> orchestra contractor
> Mark Eshelman
> ....
> scoring crew
> Alan Estes
> ....
> musician: vibraphone solos
> Dan Higgins
> ....
> musician: saxophone solos
> Todd Homme
> ....
> music executive
> Jason Lloyd
> ....
> scoring crew
> Susan McLean
> ....
> scoring crew (as Sue McLean)
> Adam Michalak
> ....
> scoring crew
> Shawn Murphy
> ....
> music scoring mixer
> John Neufeld
> ....
> orchestrator
> Kenneth Wannberg
> ....
> music editor (as Ken Wannberg)
> Pat Weber
> ....
> scoring crew (as Patrick Weber)
> Karen Bennett
> ....
> assistant music editor (uncredited)
> Mark Graham
> ....
> music copyist (uncredited)
> Conrad Pope
> ....
> orchestrator (uncredited)
> John Williams
> ....
> conductor (uncredited)
> On May 31, 2008, at 7:10 PM, Alain Mayrand wrote:
>
> Ted Peterson