[Fmpro] "Where are the Distinctive Voices In Scoring?"

[David Tkaczuk]

With tongue firmly in cheek Evan ?

Dave
D&D Music

Evan Evans wrote:

> Ted,
>
> Thanks for the skepticism on Williams, it does help keep debate alive and
> his music under much needed scrutiny. However, its important to note that
> it's apparent you know very little about John Williams and for instance the
> scoring teams of the top 25 film composers, their processes and teammates
> various responsibilities. I do respect your conjecture. From your point of
> view it circumscribed many important points of suspicion about Williams. But
> I can assure you, Williams writes around 95% of the notes you hear (an
> accurate estimate based on example). His artistry does not change dependant
> on the changing of his crew over the years, and so it's easy to hear "what
> is Williams" in anything he does, if you are familiar with his
> entire oeuvre. Williams also notates VERY fast, and developed an excellent
> short hand for his notation, and can very easily put down nearly everything
> you hear. He also does not change his music on the stand as drastically as
> other film composers do, although he does tweak and produce his music "on
> the stand".
>
> Just thought you should know this so that you can make your criticisms even
> more effective. Anyone criticising Williams is doing a good service to the
> community, in keeping this famous man's role in this artform under scrutiny,
> as well as the art itself. If you feel the instinctive need to define
> Williams, I think it's very healthy that you do so. I simply recommend you
> keep abreast of the details (facts, musical theory, etc), so that your
> arguments are strong.
>
> Evan Evans
>
> Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 22:03:20 -0700
> > From: Ted Peterson <ted.peterson at tcsn.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Fmpro] FMPRO Latest Rant: "Where are the  Distinctive
> >        Voicesinscoring?"
> > To: fmpro at nxport.com
> > Message-ID: <BAE41DCC-9609-48FB-AF6E-34B7A22801AA at tcsn.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=US-ASCII;       delsp=yes;
> >  format=flowed
> >
> > Let's take Williams. If you look at the credits for Catch Me if You
> > Can, you see some interesting things....
> > ...But back to the credits. There are some listings here that lead me to
> > place Williams and other decent composers on a lower tier ... There are no
> > less than 5 people doing something with
> > the score which may have been something as simple as a piano score or
> > a mockup with instrumental suggestions. We don't know. Then we have a
> > couple of orchestrators. I have worked with some pretty good
> > orchestrators and have worked on some things myself. So I know how
> > much an orchestrator can add to the overall "sound" of a piece of
> > music. A simple piece that is well orchestrated sounds a lot better
> > than a great piece but poorly orchestrated. The whole "Pictures at an
> > Exhibition" is a good example. We have the Mussorgsky piano score,
> > some of his orchestrations, the Ravel orchestrations and the Rimsky-
> > Korsakov orchestrations so we have a lot of things to compare all
> > based on the same music. It's a good piece for study just because of
> > all of these elements around it.
> >
> > Now, orchestration and a composer's choice of instruments,
> > instrumental color and tone can define the composer as much as the
> > music in the sense of notes. I have worked on some absolutely horrid
> > scores that are little more than melodic lines with some suggestions
> > of basic harmonies and have watched as good orchestrators make a
> > quite stunning piece of music. So do I call this the product of the
> > composer or the orchestrator?
> >
> > I think that a composer like Stravinsky, or Beethoven or Mendelssohn
> > are better composers than Williams will ever hope to be. For a
> > contemporary look, take a sample of the works of Elliot Carter.
> > Absolutely wonderful and incredibly inventive. Or take Hans Werner
> > Henze. I can post a hundred names who are really expanding the
> > musical art in a way that Williams, as good as he is, can only copy.
> > Not to mention the amount of "classical" music he uses as the genesis
> > of some of his music. However, I do find his music effective as
> > supporting material for a primarily visual experience. Mozart also
> > wrote music for visual programmes and Shikaneder was adept at staging
> > wonderful fantasies of which "The Magic Flute" is the most notable.
> > But the music for the play in the form of an opera is certainly on a
> > level that Williams cannot approach through a system of sound cues.
> >
> > Don't get me wrong. The music for "Jaws" and the themes are really
> > effective. They have become cultural Icons that have transcended the
> > film and have become part of our culture. But as a purely musical
> > expression, an effective background theme is hardly "The Queen of the
> > Night."
> >
> > I wonder if "The Rite of Spring" would have the same impact if
> > Stravinsky hired a crew of orchestrators to orchestrate his dual
> > piano score.
> >
> >
> > Here are the credits:
> >
> > Music Department
> > Ramiro Belgardt
> > ....
> > assistant music editor
> > Sandy DeCrescent
> > ....
> > orchestra contractor
> > Mark Eshelman
> > ....
> > scoring crew
> > Alan Estes
> > ....
> > musician: vibraphone solos
> > Dan Higgins
> > ....
> > musician: saxophone solos
> > Todd Homme
> > ....
> > music executive
> > Jason Lloyd
> > ....
> > scoring crew
> > Susan McLean
> > ....
> > scoring crew (as Sue McLean)
> > Adam Michalak
> > ....
> > scoring crew
> > Shawn Murphy
> > ....
> > music scoring mixer
> > John Neufeld
> > ....
> > orchestrator
> > Kenneth Wannberg
> > ....
> > music editor (as Ken Wannberg)
> > Pat Weber
> > ....
> > scoring crew (as Patrick Weber)
> > Karen Bennett
> > ....
> > assistant music editor (uncredited)
> > Mark Graham
> > ....
> > music copyist (uncredited)
> > Conrad Pope
> > ....
> > orchestrator (uncredited)
> > John Williams
> > ....
> > conductor (uncredited)
> > On May 31, 2008, at 7:10 PM, Alain Mayrand wrote:
> >
> > Ted Peterson
> _______________________________________________
> The Film Music Pro List is sponsored by Film Music Magazine -  http://www.filmmusicmag.com
>
> Best of FMPRO: http://www.fmproquotes.com - Quotes site  by Billy Hale Music
>
> To edit your list options or unsubscribe, visit:
> http://nxport.com/mailman/listinfo/fmpro