[Fmpro] ho ho ho

Fri May 16 12:19:48 GMT 2008

Hi James,

great post as usual. One phrase i read in an ad for a business seminar  
has stuck with me ever since i first read it. Sorry for the caps but i  
think it's worth it. IN LIFE YOU NEVER GET WHAT YOU DESERVE, YOU GET  
WHAT YOU NEGOCIATE.

But it's not getting any easier negociating good pay in this business  
these days.

In support of what you say James about budgets i've seen the licensing  
thing you describe happen so many times. 15 years ago, i was doing a  
piano session on a film for a composer friend of mine. We where  
finishing the music for an indie feature film. The music budget was 25  
000$ all-in. The writer/director absolutely wanted to have a Jacques  
Brel song being sung off-camera by the principal actor. Mr Brel's  
estate asked for 20 000$ just for the right to use the song. The  
production cost of recording it came out of the 25 000$ composer  
budget...

Best,

Claude

On 08-05-15, at 16:27, James Ryan wrote:

> Hey gang,
> For me this just highlights the mindset that has spread like cancer in
> apparently more industries than our own.  Let's think about what's
> being said here.  Warner Brothers, (Warner Communications), a multi
> billion dollar conglomerate is asking for freebies.  The price to pay
> Harlan Ellison for his obviously valuable work would not show show up
> on their books in any threatening way any more than an atom would show
> up on an elephant.  It's not about any financial drain.  It's about
> the rush of the consumer getting something for cheap or nothing. It's
> Ego, pure ego.  Warner Communications does not benefit in any
> significant measure from this freebie.  No employee of Warner's
> benefits financially from this discount.  It's an all around lose /
> lose situation.  I have on occasion gotten more money from clients
> when they lowball me using the no real drain argument.  The comeback
> is "we just don't have the budget" to which I politely remind them
> that the budget is a story made up by them, and is changeable on
> demand.  Case in point:  I got called to write a simple guitar riff to
> be aped by an actor on camera for a commercial.  No problem, a few
> blues riffs, done.  The price was fine considering it took me less
> than ten minutes top to bottom.  It was even a union gig.  They also
> wanted an arrangement of a PD song of which there were many choices.
> Again "we only have a small budget," so an arranger's fee was what was
> available.  It was fall over easy, so I said fine.  The idiotic music
> producer then decided to slip in a new song from an unknown writer who
> had it on her demo reel.  The song was amateur at best, horribly dated
> and would never see the light of day, in spite of her best attempts to
> shove it down a number of record company's throats.  Murphy's law of
> no taste kicked in, the client thought the "new" song worked great,
> the artist asked for a $35k license fee while retaining all rights on
> a job that had a budget of about $1k and poof.  magic.  They found the
> money, just like that.
>
> Budgets are BS.  I will repeat.  Budgets when you are dealing with
> deep pocket clients are BS.  They are good stories, but stories,
> nonetheless. Polish up your negotiation skills because it's REALLY
> worth it to assist them out of their poor, poverty imbelished
> stories.  Like the man on the video says, don't do freebies.  OK if
> you're in college and a fellow student has a student film and you both
> want to do a project together, fine.  If it's your first film ever and
> you find a college student film and you need to get something on your
> reel fine.  If it's an indy film producer, be very careful.  Yes they
> have limited budgets, but they don't have zero budgets.  Kodak is not
> giving them film.  Camera rental companies are not giving them
> cameras.  Editors with very expensive Avid setups are not giving them
> unlimited free editing time, although most of the newbies from what I
> hear are editing on Mac laptops using Final Cut Studio.  They did not
> get their Macbook Pro or FCS free from Apple. Whatever.  Bottom line,
> it is rarer than fresh dinosaur shit that a client will offer to pay
> you more than you say you are worth.  They will much more likely try
> to pay you less, and often from way less down to zero.  It is your job
> to convince them of your worth if you believe you have any.  If in the
> end you do a freebie for a "client" that can afford to pay you, and
> nothing comes of it, then you have set in stone what you are worth,
> and that is not an easy value judgment to back out of.  It is not
> productive or fun when potential clients think you are worthless; it
> is much worse to feel that way about yourself, and doing freebies goes
> a long way towards incubating that little virus.
>
> Very best,
> James
>
>
> On May 15, 2008, at 3:03 PM, Scott Szabo wrote:
>
>> He's absolutely right. There are too many wannabes who believe the
>> lies told
>> to them by the production company. "It will be good promotion for
>> you." "You
>> have the opportunity to work with (fill-in-the-blank star, or
>> director)."
>> That famous actor or director will only think of you as, "that free
>> guy,"
>> and will only call you for free work. The person calling you is
>> getting
>> paid.
>>
>> Now many production companies expect you to work for Production
>> Assistant
>> wages and provide pro quality music studio as well. I fell for a few
>> of the
>> lies when I first started. I wish someone would have tipped me off
>> to the
>> lie.
>>
>> I feel it is our obligation to teach the newcomers about these traps
>> in
>> order to help them specifically and the group as a whole.
>>
>>
>> Scott Szabo
>> Szabo Sound & Music
>> 2400 Central Parkway, Suite C
>> Houston, TX 77092
>> 713-956-7451
>> www.szabosoundandmusic.com
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: fmpro-bounces+scott=szabosoundandmusic.com at nxport.com
>> [mailto:fmpro-bounces+scott=szabosoundandmusic.com at nxport.com] On
>> Behalf Of
>> chris at alpiar.com
>> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 10:35 AM
>> To: fmpro at nxport.com
>> Subject: [Fmpro] ho ho ho
>>
>>
>> http://youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE
>>
>> Christopher Kennedy Alpiar
>> Cinematic Composer
>> http://www.alpiar.com/
>>
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>> Hale Music
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The Film Music Pro List is sponsored by Film Music Magazine -  http://www.filmmusicmag.com
>>
>> Best of FMPRO: http://www.fmproquotes.com - Quotes site  by Billy
>> Hale Music
>>
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>
> _______________________________________________
> The Film Music Pro List is sponsored by Film Music Magazine -  http://www.filmmusicmag.com
>
> Best of FMPRO: http://www.fmproquotes.com - Quotes site  by Billy  
> Hale Music
>
> To edit your list options or unsubscribe, visit:
> http://nxport.com/mailman/listinfo/fmpro