[Fmpro] why does AFM not include composers?

Tue May 27 20:22:31 GMT 2008

Why would those folks need to join the AFM? The studios in LA, the  
theaters on Broadway dont join the AFM, but they have to pay the AFM  
in order to get the top players to show up for a recording

Christopher Kennedy Alpiar
Cinematic Composer
937.294.0900 (Dayton Studio)
310.339.9603 (Los Angeles)
877.294.0912 (Toll Free)
www.alpiar.com

On May 27, 2008, at 4:16 PM, James Ryan wrote:

> There is a slight problem with the negotiating and enforcement part of
> this argument.  It requires TV stations and producers to join the
> AFofM.  If you are not a signatory, you are not bound by any AFM by
> laws.  What Indy producer would join?  What would be the advantage to
> them?  What cable network would join?  The only way you could force
> this on them is to have all or most composers join, creating a
> scarcity of non union composers - good luck with that one.  We are
> back to a large number of bottom feeders jumping on an opportunity
> like this to say, "call me, I'm non union, I'll score your film or tv
> show for next to nothing, no strings attached!"  If the AFofM would
> have us, we would have our work cut out for us convincing all the
> starving, new composers and the smaller stations and producers to
> join.  It would require a big educational push and lobby on behalf of
> the idea that all composers should join up. I do think it would work
> for the big producers and TV networks though.
>
> All that being said, isn't there some problem with composers being
> represented by the AFM?  Didn't we go down this road and find it
> wouldn't work, or they wouldn't have us for some reason?  Anybody have
> info on this?
>
> And Chris, horse penises are REALLY big, and that is one thing we
> apparently do not have!!  :-)
>
> James
>
> On May 27, 2008, at 3:45 PM, Christopher Alpiar wrote:
>
>> well, thats speculative response, not a factual reason as to why.
>>
>> Musicians and composers are both self-employed and are taxed that  
>> way,
>> unless they form their own corporation or LLC, which both can do.
>>
>> AFM does include arrangers, orchestrators and copyists, they are not
>> part of the first response point you made any more than composers  
>> are,
>> nor are they any farther from it
>>
>> The AFM, as a branch of the AFL/CIO has TREMENDOUS collective power.
>> They are not as funded, obviously, as the UAW or something but they  
>> do
>> a lot of really good work. They also provide free legal services to
>> its members. Did you know if you get screwed on money while doing a
>> union gig the union lawyers will pursue it for you.
>>
>> And they absolutely would negotiate with the PROs.
>>
>> What I would want from a union or AFM extending itself to composers  
>> is
>>
>> 1. a guarantee minimum wage
>> 2. the force of union lawyers backing me up
>> 3. union programs like credit union, insurance, discounts
>> 4. the lobbying power to take up issues to the government in a manner
>> that holds credulity and has a clear path to delivery from individual
>> composer, to union rep, to congressmen
>>
>> Yes AFM has become much weakened in the last 15 years, you show me a
>> union that hasn't. And they are working to make changes to become  
>> more
>> current. Obviously as it stands today the AFM needs work, and those
>> issues could have a chance to get fixed if more people tried to help
>> rather than banter in the aisles about how its useless so lets all  
>> get
>> together and slash wrists collectively... Personally I would love a
>> union built with power and with money that would rip apart the people
>> making our lives less than we deserve. But I would sure rather be  
>> part
>> of the AFM then what we have currently, which is horse penis
>>
>> So back to my original question:
>>
>> Why has either the AFM historically not extended its membership to
>> composers? And if they have what happened that it didnt work?
>>
>> Christopher Kennedy Alpiar
>> Cinematic Composer
>> 937.294.0900 (Dayton Studio)
>> 310.339.9603 (Los Angeles)
>> 877.294.0912 (Toll Free)
>> www.alpiar.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 27, 2008, at 2:48 PM, Louis King wrote:
>>
>>> For a quick response ...
>>>
>>> 1. Instrumentalists ( and vocalists) are by TAX LAWS employees ...
>>> Composers are not . How is that ???  When an instrumentalists is
>>> hired they are generally told where to be, when to be there, what to
>>> do once they have arrived, they are given a place to do said work ..
>>> etc etc etc ...
>>>
>>> When someone hires a composer the above is not the same..... you
>>> work when you want, how you want etc etc etc  ...  We are 2
>>> completely different jobs to boot.
>>>
>>> 2. I don't know what great collective power you think the AFM has.
>>> Yeah they can secure 3% raises per year for the smaller and smaller
>>> number of people that can actually find a union gig. They are also
>>> blind to the changing world and slow to adjust with it.  ( buyouts
>>> come to mind ) SAG that's a union with some leverage .... AFM .....
>>> not really
>>>
>>> 3. I'm not exactly sure what battle you want a UNION to win for ya
>>> but I can tell even if composers were in the AFM you would still be
>>> writing library music for little up front and a nebulous back end,
>>> you'll still get "compose for my film for $100" ads ... the only
>>> thing that will change it is when no one will do those things ....
>>>
>>> 4. No Union is going to help your ASCAP BMI issues ....
>>>
>>> good luck
>>>
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Hale Music
>>
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The Film Music Pro List is sponsored by Film Music Magazine -  http://www.filmmusicmag.com
>
> Best of FMPRO: http://www.fmproquotes.com - Quotes site  by Billy  
> Hale Music
>
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> http://nxport.com/mailman/listinfo/fmpro
>